IT DIDN’T GET a lot of attention in the sports pages at the time, but on the Late Late Show last January Joe Schmidt targeted three home wins and one sneaky away win in this year’s Six Nations.
In a sport with a lot of variables, that was a fairly accurate prediction.
The other half of that stated objective was to get to the semi-finals of the World Cup. Because of our woeful record in the quarters, it is perhaps strange to talk of anything more than the group stages, but this man – as much as he fears high expectation levels – has a habit of reaching his targets.
A lot has changed in rugby in the last 10 years, but one thing remains the same; the big five of Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, England and France are considered the only realistic winners of the World Cup, and rightly so.
There are always one or two surprises, but history counts in this competition more than it does even in the football equivalent. No other country has even made a final. That’s mainly because teams are playing every week for two months, and those with the biggest talent pool are even more likely than normal to succeed.
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Ireland and Wales are the two you’d back to make the breakthrough and, of the two, Ireland have the much kinder draw. Irish rugby too, is slowly but surely erasing all the old burdens of history, something the Welsh never had an issue with. The Grand Slam monkey, the record in Twickenham and the losses to Southern Hemisphere sides in the World Cup have all been banished over the last decade.
Now, hopefully, our inferiority complex against the French national team is also gone. We haven’t lost to them in the last three meetings (two draws and a win), which is nicely timed given they’re in our group next year.
The factors that stopped us being able to even consider winning the tournament before now were our shallow talent pool, the historical lack of consistency and New Zealand.
Replacing O'Driscoll remains the greatest of challenges. James Crombie / INPHO
James Crombie / INPHO / INPHO
Maybe the November game on its own won’t be enough to make us believe we can down the All Blacks, but in recent years when we don’t get destroyed by them, we tend to push them very close (far more than Wales ever do, for example). Perhaps as importantly, the New Zealanders now know we could beat them.
The inconsistency has hopefully been eliminated by Schmidt. We won’t always play well, but in the three-year stint with Leinster his team probably only played badly four or five times in total, and maybe only two of those were of any consequence; in the home tie against Clermont in 2012 and in the Rabo final against Ospreys earlier that year.
There are issues with depth in midfield (also arguably at fullback and number eight) but nothing like we used to have at tighthead, loosehead or second row. We’ve the best front five cover we’ve ever had, Paddy Jackson and Ian Madigan both looked solid when called on, and we have lots of great wingers and back rows on the way back from injury.
The 13 jersey, then, as we knew before the Six Nations, is still the greatest area for concern. As Eddie O’Sullivan said, we actually need to unearth two players, not one, for this position.
Schmidt has admitted he’s been looking at this since he got into the job. In fact, he has done everything to prepare for O’Driscoll’s departure, besides actually resting him for any games.
In 2007, players, fans and the media talked up our chances. Back then it felt like a one-off shot, that we would never again have a group of players like it. We were a more bullish nation in general at that time.
We now know that doesn’t suit us, and the country won’t make the same mistake in 2015, but in truth the foundation blocks will be stronger this time round.
Just heard something hilarious today, on the Stephen Nolan show loyalists were actually complaining about Ireland’s 6 nation win. They were hoping for England to win and hoped Zimbabwe beat Ireland in the T20… Made me smile thinking about that =)
cheers frank! you wud wonder if he hates ireland so much why does he live here! u just can’t reach some ppl hopefully his hatred will die with him and d rest of his generation and we can have lasting peace for d children of this island
I don’t think we’ve ever been in a stronger position with strength in depth. I was just thinking of players who’ll be available to us for the World Cup and it makes for good reading. I’m sure I’ve left a few people out but here’s my take on it: Most, if not all, of these players will have meaningful International test or Heineken Cup experience behind them by the time the world cup comes around. Getting cohesion into the players will be key, especially the players knocking on the door to come into the team.
1. Cian Healy/Jack McGrath/Dave Kilcoyne
2. Rory Best/Sean Cronin/Richardt Strauss/Rob Herring/Steven Archer/Damian Varley
3. Mike Ross/Martin Moore/Declan Fitzpatrick/James Cronin
4. Devin Toner/Donnacha Ryan/Mike McCarthy
5. Paul O’Connell/Dan Tuohy/Ian Henderson
6. Sean O’Brien/Peter O’Mahony/Stephen Ferris/Ian Henderson/Jordi Murphy/Rhys Ruddock
7. Sean O’Brien/Chris Henry/Tommy O’Donnell
8. Jamie Heaslip/Sean O’Brien/Robbie Diack/Robin Copeland/Rhys Ruddock/Jordi Murphy
9. Conor Murray/Kieran Marmion/Eoin Reddan/Isaac Boss/James Hart.
10.Jonathan Sexton/ Ian Madigan/Paddy Jackson/JJ Hanrahan/Ian Keatley
11. Andrew Trimble/Simon Zebo/ Luke FitzGerald/Fergus McFadden.
12. Gordon D’arcy/Luke Marshal/Fergus McFadden/Ian Madigan/Andrew Trimble/Tommy Bowe
13. Robbie Henshaw/Darren Cave/Jared Payne/Luke Fitzgerald.
14. Tommy Bowe/Keith Earls/Craig Gilroy/Dave Kearney.
15. Rob Kearney/Dave Kearney/Felix Jones/Keith Earls/Simon Zebo.
A serious pool of players in my opinion, most of whom could do a job, certainly in the lesser pool games. I’m sure there are one or two I’ve missed out on. The tour of Argentina and the November tests will tell us a lot about the players who might be considered in a meaningful way.
Archer is a TH, not a hooker
Cronin is a LH
I’d throw Mike Shery/Duncan Casey in the Hooking line
Dave Foley should be in the discussion for a squad place at Lock come World Cup time
I’d also put Earls on the left wing position and take him off FB, I think everyone has come to the realisation he’s a winger from now on.
Other than that it’s a decent look at options which some positions/areas being particularly strong.
I’m not that worried about #13 because Payne can certainly do the job in the short-term with Henshaw the most likely to prove the best long-term option.
I could potentially see McFadden ending up at 13 rather than on the wing.
Also, and I say this as a Munster fan, I wouldn’t have Varley anywhere near the Hooker spot. However, give Casey another year of development and he may break into the reckoning. His problem is going to be that we are very unlikely to see any new caps after the Georgia game in the Autumn, so he probably needs a bit more time than he has.
Agreed on Archer, I actually copied and pasted from earlier notes I had made and then ended up putting Archer in the wrong place. My mistake too on Cronin. although his emergence as competition for Kilcoyne can only be a good thing. McFadden could end up at 13 yet but I’d say any of the ones I mentioned above are probably ahead of him in the queue. At tighthead, if things get really tough, there’s also Hagan and Ah You or at loosehead, Tom Court could be given a shout if everyone else gets struck down.. In the wing or full back position, you could also have Niall Morris at Leicester who’s doing quite well. Much like Stephen Donald getting a nod for the Kiwis at 10 in the last World Cup when everyone else had got injured, Gareth Steenson could be called up. Some of the players I have mentioned both in this post and the first post, won’t get within an asses roar of the final World Cup squad, and certainly, there are positions where the replacement is not of the same caliber as the starting player. However, what is interesting, is that of the 60 players I’ve mentioned, 49 of them have international caps, all bar one have played in the Heineken Cup, 15 Lions tourists, 22 Heineken Cup winners and 46 who have experience of at least a Heineken Cup semi final. A semi final tilt does not seem all that unrealistic given the group that we have and the strength in depth at our disposal. Plus there is also the added benefit of not having to fly a replacemen across the world if he is needed. Players like Eoin Griffin and Stuart Olding might have to wait until after the World Cup, along with Dannie Poolman and CJ Stander (for other reasons). The future looks bright.
As a man from Northern Ireland I categorically state that both Protestants and Catholics support the irish team as our team. The man on the nolan show is for want of a better phrase ‘a bin lid’
Every 4 years I honestly believe this time we can do it, this time.
I think we have the right man off the pitch and he has everything a coach could ask for in terms of players with the exception of two centres.
Just for jokes… Ireland team to play New Zealand in the final of rwc15: 1.Healy 2. Best 3.Ross 4.Henderson 5.o’connell 6.o’Mahoney 8.heaslip 7.Henry 9.Murray 10.sexton 11. Fitzgerald 12.o’brien 13.ferris 14. Bowe 15. Kearney… The centre combo would do damage!!
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Just heard something hilarious today, on the Stephen Nolan show loyalists were actually complaining about Ireland’s 6 nation win. They were hoping for England to win and hoped Zimbabwe beat Ireland in the T20… Made me smile thinking about that =)
Loyalism; the gift that keeps on giving…
that’s brilliant! do u have a link for it? wud luv to listen to it lol
Nolan Show: Loyalist rants about Ireland’s Six Na…: http://youtu.be/SrSzRLNRHdU
Would love to know what the life expectancy is for the average loyalist. Surely all that bitterness has to knock 10 years off you.
cheers frank! you wud wonder if he hates ireland so much why does he live here! u just can’t reach some ppl hopefully his hatred will die with him and d rest of his generation and we can have lasting peace for d children of this island
I am sure 13 wont be an issue like people expect. I dont believe realistically Joe would settle for a semi final he wants to win and that is it.
I don’t think we’ve ever been in a stronger position with strength in depth. I was just thinking of players who’ll be available to us for the World Cup and it makes for good reading. I’m sure I’ve left a few people out but here’s my take on it: Most, if not all, of these players will have meaningful International test or Heineken Cup experience behind them by the time the world cup comes around. Getting cohesion into the players will be key, especially the players knocking on the door to come into the team.
1. Cian Healy/Jack McGrath/Dave Kilcoyne
2. Rory Best/Sean Cronin/Richardt Strauss/Rob Herring/Steven Archer/Damian Varley
3. Mike Ross/Martin Moore/Declan Fitzpatrick/James Cronin
4. Devin Toner/Donnacha Ryan/Mike McCarthy
5. Paul O’Connell/Dan Tuohy/Ian Henderson
6. Sean O’Brien/Peter O’Mahony/Stephen Ferris/Ian Henderson/Jordi Murphy/Rhys Ruddock
7. Sean O’Brien/Chris Henry/Tommy O’Donnell
8. Jamie Heaslip/Sean O’Brien/Robbie Diack/Robin Copeland/Rhys Ruddock/Jordi Murphy
9. Conor Murray/Kieran Marmion/Eoin Reddan/Isaac Boss/James Hart.
10.Jonathan Sexton/ Ian Madigan/Paddy Jackson/JJ Hanrahan/Ian Keatley
11. Andrew Trimble/Simon Zebo/ Luke FitzGerald/Fergus McFadden.
12. Gordon D’arcy/Luke Marshal/Fergus McFadden/Ian Madigan/Andrew Trimble/Tommy Bowe
13. Robbie Henshaw/Darren Cave/Jared Payne/Luke Fitzgerald.
14. Tommy Bowe/Keith Earls/Craig Gilroy/Dave Kearney.
15. Rob Kearney/Dave Kearney/Felix Jones/Keith Earls/Simon Zebo.
A serious pool of players in my opinion, most of whom could do a job, certainly in the lesser pool games. I’m sure there are one or two I’ve missed out on. The tour of Argentina and the November tests will tell us a lot about the players who might be considered in a meaningful way.
A couple of minor tweaks:
Archer is a TH, not a hooker
Cronin is a LH
I’d throw Mike Shery/Duncan Casey in the Hooking line
Dave Foley should be in the discussion for a squad place at Lock come World Cup time
I’d also put Earls on the left wing position and take him off FB, I think everyone has come to the realisation he’s a winger from now on.
Other than that it’s a decent look at options which some positions/areas being particularly strong.
I’m not that worried about #13 because Payne can certainly do the job in the short-term with Henshaw the most likely to prove the best long-term option.
Left out Stuart Olding a major talent once he gets back from injury
I could potentially see McFadden ending up at 13 rather than on the wing.
Also, and I say this as a Munster fan, I wouldn’t have Varley anywhere near the Hooker spot. However, give Casey another year of development and he may break into the reckoning. His problem is going to be that we are very unlikely to see any new caps after the Georgia game in the Autumn, so he probably needs a bit more time than he has.
Agreed on Archer, I actually copied and pasted from earlier notes I had made and then ended up putting Archer in the wrong place. My mistake too on Cronin. although his emergence as competition for Kilcoyne can only be a good thing. McFadden could end up at 13 yet but I’d say any of the ones I mentioned above are probably ahead of him in the queue. At tighthead, if things get really tough, there’s also Hagan and Ah You or at loosehead, Tom Court could be given a shout if everyone else gets struck down.. In the wing or full back position, you could also have Niall Morris at Leicester who’s doing quite well. Much like Stephen Donald getting a nod for the Kiwis at 10 in the last World Cup when everyone else had got injured, Gareth Steenson could be called up. Some of the players I have mentioned both in this post and the first post, won’t get within an asses roar of the final World Cup squad, and certainly, there are positions where the replacement is not of the same caliber as the starting player. However, what is interesting, is that of the 60 players I’ve mentioned, 49 of them have international caps, all bar one have played in the Heineken Cup, 15 Lions tourists, 22 Heineken Cup winners and 46 who have experience of at least a Heineken Cup semi final. A semi final tilt does not seem all that unrealistic given the group that we have and the strength in depth at our disposal. Plus there is also the added benefit of not having to fly a replacemen across the world if he is needed. Players like Eoin Griffin and Stuart Olding might have to wait until after the World Cup, along with Dannie Poolman and CJ Stander (for other reasons). The future looks bright.
As a man from Northern Ireland I categorically state that both Protestants and Catholics support the irish team as our team. The man on the nolan show is for want of a better phrase ‘a bin lid’
Ah he’s gas though!
Sure even Davey “Spirit of Drumcree” Tweed played for Ireland
Bit of a dream but imagine an Ireland vs England WC cup final and a Shane Horgan-type try in the last seconds to beat the aul enemy
BIT of a dream??
Every 4 years I honestly believe this time we can do it, this time.
I think we have the right man off the pitch and he has everything a coach could ask for in terms of players with the exception of two centres.
We are becoming as deluded as the English football fan, we have no chance of winning this World Cup.
Probably not, but the future looks a little brighter wouldn’t you say?
Well we won’t with that attitude anyway! A bit of optimism goes a long way for morale in rugby!
Niall – funny, there was a lot of optimism in 2007 and 2011 and we did not win.
Just for jokes… Ireland team to play New Zealand in the final of rwc15: 1.Healy 2. Best 3.Ross 4.Henderson 5.o’connell 6.o’Mahoney 8.heaslip 7.Henry 9.Murray 10.sexton 11. Fitzgerald 12.o’brien 13.ferris 14. Bowe 15. Kearney… The centre combo would do damage!!
Wouldn’t say we struggle with depth in the number 8 jersey
But sure the number 8 we have never gets injured so there’s no need!!
That said I reckon O’Brien, Ferris, Ruddock, Copeland (after a year at Munster) or O’Mahony wouldn’t be bad back up!
Or Coughlan
Jordi Murphy has played 8 and there’s Roger Wilson and Robbie Diack. No shortage at 8. No. 7 slot is thinnest in the back row.
O’brien, Henry, Murphy, O’donnell
That’s 4 brilliant flankers right there!
Interesting the host on that show didn’t answer the question either )))
As the saying goes ” there’s always one “
The question didn’t deserve an answer