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Dublin: 16 °C Sunday 19 May, 2013

Opinion: The great 10 debate is back, but O’Gara should be discounted

Ireland’s heroic old out-half can’t be allowed tarnish his legend any further.

Image: ©INPHO/Dan Sheridan

IN THE 32ND minute of Ireland’s 6-12 home defeat to England, Jonathan Sexton hacked a loose English pass forward and began the chase.

His tumble to the sopping wet turf first drew loud appeals for a penalty from the stands.

However, it quickly became obvious that Sexton’s anguish wasn’t some vain appeal for a favourable decision, it was a hamstring strain which ended his afternoon and with it, Ireland’s hope of maintaining a winning run.

Ronan O’Gara entered the arena, and the scene felt set for his triumphant return to the limelight. Instead, it was a disappointing and worrying extended cameo.

O’Gara could not muster the magic of old. His passing range could be forgiven in such soggy circumstances, but the basic errors – an almost-missed touch from a penalty and two further slices off the right boot in the second half – could not. As WhiffOfCordite.com this morning put it: “It was sad to see a great, even legendary player reduced to such a shabby level, and underlines the danger of players hanging on for too long.”

Barring some Wolverine-like powers of recovery in Sexton’s hamstring, Declan Kidney will ask O’Gara to try and roll back the clock again in Murrayfield in two weeks.

True, having the least-effective three-quarter line in the Six Nations in opposition will help the Munster play-maker, but we fear there will only be more shoe-gazing around the 35-year-old in Edinburgh.

Diluted

Competition for the pivotal position has been diluted by Kidney’s anointing of Paddy Jackson as a clear third choice. After a confident start to the season where he was at the heart of one of Europe’s most potent back-lines, the 21-year-old’s inexperience has started to tell in some very iffy displays since the beginning of December. To pick Jackson would be a brave call, but to pick anybody other than O’Gara would be a brave call.

With the Championship still a possibility, now is assuredly the time to take a chance, throw an untested player to the deep end and trust that that they will swim.

The obvious alternatives to O’Gara or Jackson are Ian Madigan and Ian Keatley. The latter can be ruled out: no promotion would pain O’Gara quite so much as the man vying for his provincial shirt. That leaves Leinster’s current, and future, out-half. Madigan.

©INPHO/James Crombie

As has become the norm when Ireland lose, the debate will unearth a multitude of inter-provincial squabbles and these will rage on no matter who is selected. Just as Sexton briefly silenced half of the dispute, Madigan is capable of doing the same.

Being a Leinster out-half gives him the advantage of familiarity with the centres and the fullback outside him, but combinations aside, it is his running style and distribution that Ireland should crave against a Scottish side whose pack won’t be bullied around the park. His kicking is not yet at an international standard of consistency, but his all-round game can more than paper over that one crack.

The loss to England was not O’Gara’s fault, there was a stage when he seemed to have twisted real momentum Ireland’s way.

There was a time when he could have pulled enough strings in the game to coax this team over the line, but those days, sadly, are gone.

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Comments (111 Comments)

  • O Gara knows himself, as he is certainly not an eejit, that he doesnt do now what he once could.
    He doesnt hold a gun to anybodys head and demand selection.
    He has had great days and its doubtful that Munster and Ireland would have had the recent successes without him.
    The coach selects the team and panel and if anybody needs to be criticised in this its him.
    Would O Gara be expected to turn down the offer to join the squad or to sub or even start. There are financial implications for him in all this anyway,.
    Kidney makes the calls, he should shoulder the blame..

    Reply
    • Excellent point. enough of this childish Munster v Leinster stuff. It’s pathetic. ROG is an Ireland hero and he did no worse yesterday than most on his team, with far more pressure on him. IMO the buck stops with Declan Kidney. Never seems to be a plan b and his teams seem to be under instructions to kick possession away constantly. Either that or we have far bigger problems than I thought!

      Reply
  • I’m more worried about people writing off Scotland, the part about most ineffective backline is ridiculous! Tim Visser springs to mind, he did what our backline couldn’t do, score a try against England and done it in Twickenham! Not only is Sexton & Zebo out but it looks like the IRB are going to set an example with Healy over stamping. We should use this tournament now to bring in the youngsters and really see whats available in the country.

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  • Pointing fingers is easy. Yes rog wasn’t great. But his forwards weren’t giving him great protection, how many time where the English boys right in rogs face? As for “captain” heaslip, if he wasn’t captain yesterday, he’d have been dragged off.

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  • Maybe look to the first 15 who are not performing first – Heaslip in particular.

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  • Heaslip for all his undoubted talent was visibly a nervous wreck yesterday . When a captain isn’t right it rubs off on all the team , that is true in every sport . , I think if Kidney has big decisions to make he has to put his hand up and admit he has made a mistake , if he wasn’t captain I thing a spell on the bench would be beckoning

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  • Careful now, don’t lose the nerve. We matched or were better in every department…… except the top two inches. We played the wrong game for the conditions and they did not. It’s as simple as that.

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  • One bad game & you are ready to retire O’Gara. We’d struggle to field XV against Scotland if we were to retire everybody who had a bad game yesterday.

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  • He’s not even playing well for Munster. Keatley has his problems but Munster play far better with him at 10 and there’s the massively talented JJ Hanrahan coming through as well. Sport is cruel like this but ROG has been in decline for a few years now and should have been cut from the international squad after the autumn games.

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    • if memory serves me well munster would not have made the knockout stages of the Heineken cup last year if it were not for rog. not bad for a player in decline.

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    • ColindeB 13/02/13 #

      Your memory is failing you Frank. Munster wouldn’t have been in the position of need last second drop goals to win games if ROG was still able to play at the gainline instead of 10 yards behind it. Great servant for Munster and Ireland but his day is long past and we should be giving one of the young lads a shot. Their weaknesses are no worse and their upside is better.

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  • Shem 11/02/13 #

    Kidney is so inept at spotting the decline of form that its astounding. He played TOL into making a fool of himself and he’s done it again with ROG. Madigan wont start (hasnt even gotten a game at 10 for the wolfhounds) and kidney wont go to Murrayfield with two young outhalves. So we will see Jackson and ROG, I just hope Kidney has enough cop on to start Jackson.

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  • Heaslep was a joke,a 9 year would not have the mistakes he made and that grin

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  • I am a supporter of Sexton for the Irish 10, but there is not another 10 in the country who is up to the international standard of O’Gara apart from Sexton. I hate hearing this negative ROG press considering what he’s contributed to Irish rugby. Like what happened with Humphreys, the up and coming players must win the sub 10 jersey off O’Gara so his still being there is testament to his ability as a player. People at this stage are looking for any excuse to mouth off the guy who still retains the Munster 10 jersey from Keatley at Heineken cup level. The point is, OK he had a bad game, but 6 points down against England in those conditions at that level who would you rather replace Sexton, Madigan or O’Gara?! I know where my preference lies still.

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  • ROG deserves the respect of everyone in Ireland, granted he is getting on but he cannot be made a scapegoat for a bad Irish performance. He owes us nothing and fair play to him for even sticking around. Paddy Jackson will get his chance whether he starts next match or not. The man had his pride in tact and was there yesterday like all the other times we needed him

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  • Pretty disrespectful to O Gara this article, the man is a hero of Irish rugby and he certainly isn’t washed-up yet. If Sexton is injured, O Gara is the obvious cover.. The great debate should be about picking the right captain I think, because Heaslip doesn’t seem comfortable in the role.

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  • How many players have we we seen over the last year that have had a not so good game. I can think of nearly all the present team. There was no talk of being to old or finished when it happened to them. Everyone is allowed to have a bad day. Although you wish they didn’t. The article in the first place is an insult to ROG.

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  • Hilarious stuff here. ROG was replaced by Sexton at a time when he was on top of his game pulling out masterful displays week in week out with Munster and Ireland. If he had not been cut down so early in his prime we probably would have bagged another Six Nations Championship instead we watched on as a supposedly young and upcoming great fly half who was in fact 26 missed kick after kick and especially the the big ones! He was afforded ridiculous amounts of time for what must have been highly frustrating for the greatest ever Heineken Cup fly half in history, need proof then check the records! Yesterday ROG was asked to step into the side and turn a game around without any platform to do so. Sexton didn’t do it remember! To many people on here taking the only cheap shot at an irish rugby legend!

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    • The greatest flyhalf in Heineken cup history? Depends on how you look at it? Johnny sexton won the cup 3 times!
      Thats the most any 10 in the history of the competition so I’d guess that might make him the greatest, now I’m guessing your counting overall points?
      Fair play rog has scored the most penalties of any 10 but then again he’s played more than any other 10 so you guess he’d score more.
      Now measure scores per game or maybe tries created per game. See I don’t really think you can say rog is the greatest you can say he’s scored the most points, played the most games, the best kicker? Maybe best ever I don’t think so

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    • ROG voted ERC best player in the first 15 years of the competition in 2010 ….

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    • Since then Johnny sexton has picked up his third winners medal

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    • Being a member if a 3 time winning team us very different to being the best player in your position based on a time frame over a decade. I would have thought that to be obvious. By your drain of thought the whole Leinster team are the best Irish players of there generation!! Take the cap off!

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    • Elrat 11/02/13 #

      The way he was playing yesterday he be lucky to make a 3rds side. Hasn’t got the rugby brain of OGara – reminds me of Faldo – mechanical !

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    • That was three years ago and probably true. But time passes and players lose their edge. Time to try other options. If he plays himself back into form with Munster then bring him back. For now it can’t do any harm to try Jackson or Madigan. If for nothing else than shoring up the defensive hole at 10.

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    • Just one type of comment I don’t like: “He won 3 Heineken cups, therefore……” it’s a team game, the team won them. Doesn’t prove anything. Remember, Djimi Traore has a champions league medal! On the main topic, we don’t in Ireland seem to be as good at succession/injury planning. I know playing resources are lower here than others but these situations need better preparation. Who replaces O Driscoll or Mike Ross if injured?

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    • Unfortunately, neither Jackson nor Madigan have the complete confidence of their provincial coaches, neither is an automatic first choice and in Madigan’s case, word is his province is looking to buy in a replacement for Sexton.

      Keatley? A very good provincial-level out half but has not really been hitting the heights required for International duty.

      The International side is not and shouldn’t be, a vehicle to test any players’ abilities. There are sufficient structures in place to do that. Unfortunately, these structures have not produced any obvious alternatives – probably to Sexton right now. To my mind, it is only ROG or Keatley now with Madigan and Jackson needing to firmly nail down their provincial positions to establish their worth.

      The REAL concern is that Irish rugby at both provincial and International level is in transition with only Ulster making progress. Leinster were not good enough to get out of their pool and Munster struggled to make a best runner-up slot. That is reality.

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    • mattoid 12/02/13 #

      Nail on the head Brian

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    • Not team wins 3 games without a good 10 nevermind the hineken cup, sexton lead his team to 3 championships

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  • What an utter load of bollix, a cheap article written to elicit a predictable response from Rugby fans. One bad game by ROG, in a team that collapsed long before he entered the fray does not signal a premature end. Sean you can expect ROG to shove your opinion up your hole as he has done to similar two bit journos throughout his entire career!

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  • This is most disrespectful. After everything that ROG has given to the game here. Band wagon jumpers, there were not that many players in green covering themselves in glory yesterday.
    As for a debate about the 10 jersey, there is none. Madigan can’t get ahead of Jackson whose management skills are iffy to say the least. Keatley can’t get a look in ahead if ROG so come on. Who does that leave? Ireland weren’t that bad yesterday, England played a smarter game and deserved the win.
    If a few passes had stuck and we’d gone over for a few scores you lot would be singing his praises. They didn’t stick, the wrong options were taken too often, and the red thumb brigade want to put him out to pasture like he shoulders the responsibility alone for the result. Moronic.

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    • Madigan can’t get past jackson according to kidney, keatley got Munster through and is in position to Lead Munster forward. When Munster needed tries most Munster fans were calling for keatley. Rog and his type of game is history, sitting deep and kicking the tram lines had its day and he was the master but the game is played on the gain line now and rog is not that type of player.
      I’d suggest a young rog would not make the break through in the modern game.

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  • Alot of armchair sport fans commenting who don’t know jack about the game.

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  • Sextons a great player don’t get me wrong .. But I wouldn’t class him as the greatest out half in the heineken cup .. The greatest centre partnership in irish rugby playing outside him and a back row like leinsters over the last few years creating platforms for him… Where was he this year with all leinsters injurys.. No knockout stages

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  • I agree with Williams, just don’t think he should be bringing it up in the middle of the tournament. Only makes it more of an issue…

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  • spot on. he simply can’t get picked again

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  • This is a very disappointing piece of journalism. The English media gave O’ Gara relatively good reviews. At least they aren’t affected by the Leinster-Munster tribalism.

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    • The Guardian’s only mention of him was to draw parallels between a spilled ball and his performance on the last Lions tour. Eurosport UK are arguing he should retire. The Telegraph simply noted that this should have been his kind of game, as did the BBC. This isn’t about Leinster/Munster tribalism (Jackson can feel most hard done by as a result of O’Gara’s inclusion); it’s about a player who isn’t up to the standard anymore.

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    • Of course the Englsih media would give him a good review. The Englsih media view is that your trump card, just because the English media say ROG is great he is great.

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    • O’gara having a mare is not Leinster fans fault no more is heaslip dropping the ball because your a Munster fan.

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  • look the man is simply not able for it. id give one of the young lads a go as ROG aint gonna be around for 2015

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  • More poor tabloid reporting.
    Madigan started ahead of sexton in more games in the last two seasons that Keatley has started ahead of O’Gara.
    O’Gara made less poor kicks in the game than Sexton did and he played for twice as long.
    O’Gara is not the future, that’s why he was on the bench. Problem is there is nobody in the press that can see Darcy and O’Driscoll only have 50-60 mins of attacking rugby, after that like they read the space and position themselves well for defense.
    Jackson has shown more promise at 12 than either Keatley or Madigan. All are similarly capable/poor kickers thus the additional strengths are more important.
    Ireland are do not have any centres in the team, Earls is not the answer due to defensive positioning, and this should be taken as an opportunity to bring in a 12 capable kicker

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  • eoghan 11/02/13 #

    Every body expects o gara to win the game as soon as his on he is still better than sexton because he didn’t win it for Ireland at the weekend the leinister crowd will be on his back,

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  • macca 11/02/13 #

    I’m a Munster man and an eejit can see o gara is not good enough any more! The game munster are trying to play o gara is not the right out half for it! He’s a conservative out half and doesn’t play on the gain line! I personally taught that game would suit him Sunday as he would pin the corners bit it never materialised

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  • give the kicking over to Paddy Jackson. also Heaslip should not have been made captain

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  • Disappointed with Williams. Said its not an issue but he’s making an issue when he brings it up. Know it’s only a blog but still… He does have a point about Henry’s actions after the anthems though…

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  • Well to hell with all you ‘people of little faith’ O Gara made an instant impact and played his part after very little playing time. In addition we should all remember he said no to the French, whilst Johnny is on a plane to Paris. Rise above it Rog !!! Rebels Abu

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  • This article is the greatest load of cock I have ever had the dis-pleasure to read….Write O’ Gara off at yer pearl…. The man’s a genius and still at the top of his game only that there are younger players on the up he’d still be the first choice No. 10.. I agree with Reginald Tower….Let the Scotland game show all the doubters…

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    • People seem to forgery the choice to go for the missed pts was a collective decision with heaslip. He had a bad game so.did moat of Ireland but how do people expect him to gel as well as he.used to with the team when he gets little or no game time. Fingers crossed he proves the leinster crew wrong in Murrayfield.

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    • Rog did not pick himself, if the likes of Madigan and Jackson whom are too small were good enough they would have been selected. Don’t blame Rog for the awful performance of the team captain who has been living on his reputation for the last two years, it’s about time some people grew up , experts one and all with very blinkered vision,

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    • For Christ’s sake. This is not some nonsense Munster/Leinster issue. The simple fact is that ROG was shite when he came on. Partly because he got bad protection but mainly because he couldn’t handle it. He stood off everything and was caught is possession too easily. Defensive play has never been his strength but yesterday he was just plain poor and there are other options at 10 these days.
      That said, there were several players other found wanting on the day as well as the coach. Lets hope they all work hard over the next two weeks.
      Forget the parochial provence bashing it doesn’t help anything.

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  • Some of the comments here are spectacular in their unwillingness to face reality. O’Gara is done. His kicking range is gone, he stands too far back from the gainline, his passing is lackluster, his kicking from hand is utterly predictable, and his tackling is nonexistent. This isn’t about one poor game, no matter how many times people say it is; he put in the single worst cameo I’ve ever seen a substitute make against Argentina by kicking the ball ten feet into Argentinian hands on the Irish 22 and then completely failing to tackle said Argentinian or even slow down his progress to the tryline. He no longer offers anything to the Irish team.

    As for the comments about who you’d want closing out a match – he hasn’t successfully closed out a match for Ireland in a long time. Jackson and Madigan are superior options already; Keatley and Steenson are potentially better, but are unlikely to get their hands anywhere near a jersey. Posturing about disrespect and “ye Leinster lads” is utterly pointless; O’Gara’s current form is nowhere near good enough to justify a place in the 23. If Madigan had been called in as substitute and put in that performance, the whole country would be howling for him never to see an Irish jersey again. This isn’t about Leinster v Munster (to be honest, Jackson is probably next on the list and thoroughly deserves a chance); this is about a player who simply isn’t playing well enough to deserve a spot in the 23.

    Is his goalkicking far beyond everyone else? No.
    Is his kicking for penalties fay beyond everyone else? No; it’s now significantly worse.
    Is his kicking from open play fay beyond everyone else? No; it’s pretty average.
    Is his passing up to par? No.
    Is his attacking threat enough? No.

    Get over the hysterical hero-worship and come to terms with the fact that Ronan O’Gara is not the player he was. It’s an insult to pretend he is; the 03-09 ROG was one of the best in the world, and utterly merciless in punishing turnovers with fifty yards of territory. The current incarnation of ROG is not good enough, and the sooner it’s acknowledged the better.

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    • mattoid 12/02/13 #

      “This isn’t about Leinster-Munster”
      No, it shouldn’t be, but if you and many others on here slating him had witnessed some of his superb performances for Munster this season you would know that he is far from being past his best, and would perhaps be less quick to spout such vitriolic nonsense about him.

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    • Vitriolic nonsense? He played badly, and no amount of good performances for Munster will change the fact that his form for Ireland has been poor.

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    • his form for ireland is poor! go look at the amount of games we lost since sexy is at no.10. we were winning the triple crown every other year under rog, and first slam in 61 yrs. what have we got since he was shafted at 31 for this robot sexy.. what a crock of s…. from bitter leinster fans who shafted the acknowledged greatest hieneken cup player in the first 15 years.

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    • Ah yes, replacing Ronan O’Gara with Jonathan Sexton is the cause of Ireland’s woes. Get real. The reason Ireland are in poor form is the tactical mindset used by Kidney that sees Sexton kicking three times as much for country as for province. If Sexton was inferior, he wouldn’t have three Heineken cup winner’s medals. We were winning the triple crown every second year under Eddie O’Sullivan; we’re doing poorly under Declan Kidney.

      O’Gara is currently in poor form, and no amount of furious invective about Leinster fans (and for the third time now, Ulster’s Paddy Jackson is the one with most right to feel aggrieved by ROG’s continued inclusion) is going to change that. Against Argentina his biggest contribution was to giftwrap a try for the opposition, and against England he couldn’t make more than fifteen yards off penalties. That’s poor form by any objective standard.

      And how exactly did Leinster fans “shaft” O’Gara? Did Leinster fans pick the Ireland team? Did they stop him signing for Leinster?

      I want to ask an honest question: what would O’Gara have to do on the pitch for you to accept that calls to drop him are legitimate? I’m genuinely curious. At what point of performance would you stand back and say “enough is enough, it’s time for Jackson to come in”? Either that point exists, in which case we can have a serious discussion about the degree of leeway that should be given to a player of ROG’s stature and standing, or it doesn’t, in which case there’s no point whatsoever in discussing it with you.

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    • mattoid 13/02/13 #

      Luke – in seven seasons in charge Eddie O’Sullivan delivered four second places, two third places and a fourth place. Not a bad record, but a championship would have been nice.

      In his first season in charge Deccie delivered Ireland’s first grand slam in 60 years and first championship win in 24 years. Since then he has delivered a second place and two third places – pretty much on a par with Eddie’s record.

      Its absolute nonsense to suggest that Kidney’s record is poor compared to O’Sullivan’s! The stats don’t lie.

      Reply
    • Good post Luke. Let’s not forget ROG’s cameo against SA where his only contribution wis to kick the ball into south african arms with the clock at 80. The once legend is now well beyond terrible. I would happily have Keats JJ Madigan Olding Jackson and my ma ahead of him.

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    • By the way Mattoid I have seen most of munster’s games this season and ROG has been terrible in most of them. So you’ll have to specify which “superb performances for Munster” you’re talking about. Most of my munster fan buddies all of whom are knowledgable about the sport they play suspect ROG is only ahead of Keats because of IRFU diktat, and that he should have been dropped months ago following one terrible performance after another.

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    • mattoid 13/02/13 #

      Joseph
      Are you trying to suggest that the IRFU can tell the provinces which players they have to select for any given match??

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  • this ireland debate is fcuked. the munster/leinster divide has ireland crippled. as a munster man i say when munster were on top and we had more munster men playing in green we won a grand slam and a bag of triple crown’s now it (was) leinsters time and what have we got??? jacks shit. with regard to rog….sunday he didnt cover himself with glory but of course he hasnt played for a month. sexy was shite for his half hour ye all forget this. and btw rog was shafted way too early by leinster too bring in that robot sexy…. like mongo says in blazing saddles. its a direct reference too sexton. ” im not that bright but i can lift heavy things”

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  • Brian…what a ridiculous comment….rugby under whatever flag …has shown people on this island can get on…no matter where they are from or what their background is.Poor attempt to bring politics into a story about sport.

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  • It’s only a game, lads.

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  • Ye Leinster people have written ROG off before & he has come back to prove ye wrong. There are plenty of other players who fingers could be pointed at about yesterday as much as or more than ROG. Let’s see what happens v Scotland.

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    • I don’t think there is a player the finger could be pointed to MORE than ROG for his woeful performance. Equal to his poor performance was Heaslips. I don’t see any Leinster players here defending Heaslip. I don’t think he should have been made captain in the first place and on his form he’s lucky to be in the team. As for O’Gara, you can’t deny that he had an absolutely rubbish game and I’m grateful for his contribution to Irish rugby but I don’t want his reputation tarnished. He’s past it and it can’t be denied.

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    • Reginald, if you are actually serious your comments are embarrassing.. Bringing it back to Ye Leinster lads is pathetic. The facts are staring you in the face, screaming actually. O ‘Gara was at one time irreplaceable for Ireland, sadly that time passed 2.5 seasons ago. The conservatism of Kidney has once again put us in this situation. Madigan based on form alone deserves to be on the bench for Ireland, followed by Jackson except for his shaky game management in some big games he has real talent and just needs exposure on the big stage he will grow in to himself with exposure like madigan has this season. It is nothing new from Kidney, the only reason Mike Ross got a go was because his hand was forced- the rugby public were screaming out for his inclusion for 2 seasons before he gave in.

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    • True, Rog did not have a great match, but if you watch the match again you will see that he had precious little protection from his back row and the English flankers were in his face all day, severely restriction his kicking options. When caught in possession he was often isolated but Darcy did not recognise this or get in fast enough to secure the ball, forcing O’Gara to hold on. Darcy’s pass as scrum half crucified him as well.
      Fair enough, criticism is warranted for the handful of bad kicks and handling errors, but any fly half would have struggled with the pressure the English back row were putting him under.

      A good player can have a poor match, but he doesn’t suddenly become a bad player!

      If a last minute drop goal is required in a fortnight’s time I’d still rather have Rog on the pitch than any other Irish fly half.

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    • Elrat 11/02/13 #

      Madigan can’t even make the Wolfhounds bench FFS !

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    • What sort of an eejit wrote this. He slices two kicks and his career’s over? Get a grip.

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    • No he is 35 and his top class international career is over. As a Munster fan I wish this was not true but it is.

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  • ROG would walk straight into 4 of 6 nations starting XV’s. Having him on the bench is a blessing, even if he did have a hard time of it on Sunday. O’Gara being away on international duties also give Keatley some well deserved game time to prove himself in the rabo. In my opinion Irish rugby is best served, at the moment, with the all the understudies playing provincial rugby.

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    • Peter, which 4 teams would they be then?

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    • I’d have Sexton and Farrell ahead of ROG in current form. You can’t say there are any other European 10′s that you would seriously put up there….

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    • Peter in all honesty I would not put him in any of the other teams, especially Wales and France. He can no longer make up for his defensive frailties with other aspects of his game and for me it is time to blood some of the younger players, which with Sexton heading to France is even more necessary.

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    • I’m not sure Paul, I presume in mentioning France and Wales you are referring to their thrilling expansive game to which ROG wouldn’t be best suited. We’ve all witnessed in the first two games though how both teams don’t really have a plan B. France’s dismal performance in Rome is case in point. they have no game manager. Granted I’m remembering ROG through slightly rose tinted glasses but if you drop someone when they are on top of their game you always will. Lets just wait and see how he does in Scotland after some time to prepare. I bet a lot of these debates will be proved frivolous.

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    • Peter, in fairness ROG is not as naturally expansive as Michalak and if he is to be given time so must Wales and France who are both going through a poor phase. I do agree that ROG still has something to offer, but for me it is time to bring some young blood through. Sexton will be flogged in France and it will be interesting to see how his moving there affects his selection and relationship with the IRFU. I also agree that some of the comments listed about him are rather harsh.

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  • Get Madigan or Jackson in there. O’Gara should have been gone 2 years ago. I would give myself an excellent chance of running straight through one of his “tackles”. We can’t afford to have a member of the back row protecting him all day long, playing with ROG for years surely shortened David Wallace’s career.

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    • Half the job of a back row forward is protecting his fly half and giving him time and space to deliver his kicks, but Rog did not get that protection yesterday.

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    • Lol really?

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    • Peter Doyle lol ur funny. Wallace was in the form of his life before tuilagi tackle ended his career. He said himself he had never been fitter. Nothing to do with ROG.

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    • too harsh man ..

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    • Since when is it a backrower’s job to protect a ten? Protect a scrumhalf, maybe, but plenty of tens do perfectly well without needing a patrolling blindside – particularly Sexton, around whom the gameplan would have been built. Protecting the ten specifically simply isn’t a standard part of a backrow’s job.

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    • mattoid 13/02/13 #

      Luke – pretty much since the game was invented it has been part of the job of the flankers and no. 8 to get in the face of the opposing no 10 and try to prevent him from playing effectively, and equally to protect his own fly half from the attentions of the opposing back row forwards (both within and sometimes outside the law).

      I’m talking about rugby union, what game are you talking about??

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    • Not in the way you seem to be describing it. What exactly should the backrow have been doing that they weren’t? Standing another five yards behind an outhalf already ten yards behind the gainline? There’s a limit to the protection that can be offered phase after phase; giving a ten time to make a kick is a specific task and not something a backrow should be asked to do every single time. They’re also meant to be making carries and supporting at rucks and serving as support for an offload.

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    • mattoid 13/02/13 #

      Luke, you’ve gone some way towards answering your own question there – Rog was forced to stand so far behind the gain line precisely because he wasn’t getting the protection from the English back row forwards that he needed. That’s not to blame anyone in particular – Robshaw was immense for England at 7 (a man of the match performance) and was all over O’Gara for much of the match.

      The scrum is one of the main times that the back row forwards should be protecting their half-backs, but even at the ruck savvy body positioning will buy time and space for your fly-half without getting on the wrong side of the referee, and as I alluded to it is also pretty common to operate on or outside the fringes of the law if you can get away with it.

      Of course that’s only part of the role of a 6, 7 or 8 – nobody’s suggesting thats all they should ever do!

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  • depressing stuff reading some of the drivel that passes for opinion on these comments. that o hara is one of our ever players is not up for debate but if you really think he is not pissing all over his own legacy with his performances over the last year than you are dillusional.

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  • Anyone who thinks RADGE is close to the standard required is delusional. He was absolute muck on sunday, can’t tackle, can’t pass, stands 10 meters behind the gain line and still manages to get turned over twice, kicks pens 10 meters, oh and let’s not forget dropping a high ball and giving away a pen. Yes he can still kick conversions, and but he still manages to miss an easy one.

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  • As a Munster supporter we owe this guy an unbelievable amount, as an Irish supporter we owe him for some great days too. However ROG owes it to himself to give up the ghost for both teams he’s not going to get any better. Heaslip replacing BOD is seen as building for the future, by that logic, ROG sitting on the bench couldn’t be more illogical.

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  • ROG is an all time great. The man has had no game time for over a month what did ye expect. Don’t forget we were 6-0 down with Sexton on the pitch. Driscoll had a bad game. Darcy just had another bad game I can’t remember his last good one. Heaslip is an absolute joke. He shouldn’t even be playing never mind be captain. Jackson to start at 10 I nearly fell off the couch laughing at that. Get real people. We are a extremely average team full of players well passed there prime.

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    • Why is Jackson at ten such a joke? He’s in better form, playing for a better team. Is there something magic about ROG that means Jackson can’t compete?

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    • So rog done his best and all the Leinster players were crap!
      Can I ask if the reason rog wasn’t up to the required standard was because he hasent played in a month you’d think a player of his experience would have said this to the manager.

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    • It’s not up to ROG to say he shouldn’t be playing. If he did all ye Leinster pri@@s would accuse him of abandoning his country because he is in a strop about being second fiddle to an average player. He was picked by Kidney and as always he is giving his all for the jersey.

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    • Seriously? We’re all Leinster pri**s for daring to discuss the possibility of dropping O’Gara? Even though Paddy Jackson – an Ulsterman – is the next in line? And how on earth do you know anyone would react like that to O’Gara making himself unavailable? I wouldn’t, and I can’t think of anyone who would; they’d by and large treat the decision with the respect due a player who did as much for his country as O’Gara has.

      This has nothing to do with disrespect. It has nothing to do with Leinster versus Munster. It has nothing to do with anything except the fact that O’Gara is not, on current form, deserving of a place in the Ireland 23 ahead of Paddy Jackson.

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    • And describing Sexton – a treble Heineken Cup winner and likely starting Lions ten – as an “average player” is just ridiculous, as is describing a team with Healy, Best, Ryan, Henderson, O’Mahony, Heaslip, O’Brien, Ferris, Sexton, Earls, Zebo, Bowe, Gilroy and Kearney as being either extremely average or past their prime.

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  • Want at match but speaking to loads of fans who eere very bad atmosphere before match,no buzz first song heard on tv was swing low sweet chariot .so if fans not buzzing players not buzzing.
    cmon lets keep plugging away one wet day isnt a winter,bring on the rest and hopefully england can loose a match and we can take it to the wire.
    Plenty lads had handling probs but we did lose 2 great assets early on hard to win when 2 down

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  • Steve 11/02/13 #

    I couldn’t understand why people were basically saying the game yesterday was a possible title decider. Win lose or draw yesterday our next game against Scotland was always going to be a difficult game. Scotland did well against England and the scoreboard flattered England at the end.

    Scotland also put in a clinical performance against Italy. They have some new and exciting players and a few guys back who were out for a while. I was tipping Scotland to beat Ireland before the game yesterday but with all the injuries we now have I think Scotland will not only win but win well!

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  • Each to there own as long as its not in a disrespectful manor… Sure I refuse to sing that sorry exchuse for an anthem (Irelands Call)

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  • Tommy, with due respect, Williams brought the topic up – ‘it seems like nothing other than a self inflicted gunshot wound to the head when players of the calibre of Chris Henry and Rory Best show a blatant disregard for their team through such a demon eyed stare of the tri colour’

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    • There is blatant censorship on this article , what’s wrong with me expressing that I would like to see the IRFU disbanded and two separate unions to be established in accordance with the political geography of the island ?

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    • Could whoever disliked Art’s comment please return to Stalinist Russia. Fair play to you Art, we all might not agree with what you say but we respect Your views. Say no to censorship.

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  • Paddy Jackson should be called up

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