First published 26 April 2014
18 JUNE 1994 should have been a day of unequivocal joy for Ireland as a nation.
Having consistently grown as a team during the tenure of Jack Charlton, the Irish football side had achieved arguably the greatest result in its history — beating Italy 1-0 at the World Cup in front of a packed Giants Stadium in New York.
However, despite the ecstasy that their victory initially prompted, the day will forever be tinged with great sadness. During the game, a massacre had taken place in a barely-known pub, the Heights Bar, in Loughinisland County Down.
The killings were politically motivated. Those who carried out the murders of six innocent people, while injuring five others, were identified as UVF members. Yet the reason for targeting this particular pub wasn’t clear then and it still isn’t now. It was a bar frequented by both Catholics and Protestants well away from the core areas where violence had frequently been erupting during the Troubles.
This unexpected attack consequently sent shockwaves across the country and significantly dampened the excitement and feel-good factor apparent in the immediate aftermath of the Italy win. Ultimately, it proved to be a major turning point in the Troubles, and one which undoubtedly contributed to the paramilitaries on both sides calling ceasefires only weeks later. However, for those caught up in the tragedy, it remains a deeply painful and traumatic memory, despite the country having since moved on from those dark times.
Ceasefire Massacre, an ESPN ‘30 for 30′ documentary released earlier this year, which is a Fine Points Films production directed by American documentarian Alex Gibney and produced by Irish filmmaker Trevor Birney, explores the impact of this tragedy and interviews family members of the victims 20 years on.
Airing this Tuesday to millions of viewers in the United States, the programme provides a poignant reminder of the Troubles and the irrevocable damage that the violence of the time caused to many.
“I was a reporter in local radio and though I wasn’t working on the night itself, I was working as a news journalist commenting on that period of the Troubles,” Birney tells TheScore.ie, recalling the evening in question.
He explains that a sense of ominousness was palpable prior to the game. “Myself and my brother — we had to think very hard where we’d go to watch the match on that night. I remember the very tense feeling there was in Belfast at the time. There were a number of shootings and attacks. We chose to go to somewhere very quiet that was tucked away in the middle of nowhere. We didn’t want to go to one of the main bars in one of the main rows. We felt that it was a very difficult time and we knew that bars were very easily chosen by those who wanted to commit atrocities.”
The documentary explores not only the Ireland-Italy game and the tragedy of 18 June, but also the events leading up to it. Ireland’s qualification for the competition following a 1-1 draw with Northern Ireland amid an intensely hostile Windsor Park crowd (also known as the ‘Night in November’), and the ill-feeling stirred up by the fact that Gerry Adams, one of the most prominent faces of the Republican movement, was granted a visa to travel to the US to meet with influential Irish-Americans. The said individuals were consequently regarded by many unionist leaders as “nothing more than Americans meddling in the affairs of Northern Ireland,” as Birney puts it.
One of the most prominent Irish-Americans in this saga was Bill Flynn — a highly successful businessman who had talked publicly about his links to Loughinisland. Hence, one of the ideas explored in the film is that the area had been attacked as a warning to Flynn. Therefore, does Birney himself personally subscribe to this theory?
“We’ve met and spoken with Bill Flynn many times and we spoke in New York again just recently,” he says. “It’s something that he’s thought about and considered. The answer is that we just don’t know, but we do know that for months, Bill had been in secret communications with senior loyalists, members of the UVF.
“We know that he was a very proud grandson of Loughinisland. He opened and closed meetings in Belfast telling people of his associations with Loughinisland. Did somebody somewhere pick up on this at the time? There was a huge amount of anger directed from the unionists towards Irish-Americans and what was known as the ‘pan-nationalist’.
“At that time, did somebody somewhere put two and two together and vent their anger with these Americans coming into Northern Ireland? They were very much seen as friends of the IRA, friends of Sinn Féin and not seen to be working in the interests of Unionism, or of Northern Ireland remaining part of Britain.”
“But the simple fact is that six men died and five others were injured and there’s still an awful lot of people in Loughinisland who are suffering no matter how and why their village was chosen on that night.”
The documentary features interviews with three of the Irish players involved in the World Cup campaign — Niall Quinn, Ray Houghton and Packie Bonner. The trio’s shock from both the infamous ‘Night in November’ and the Loughinisland Massacre is still evident even as they recall these events years after their occurrence. They thus vividly describe their own personal shock as well as these incidents’ impact on the team at large.
“Niall Quinn particularly remembered that night of going to Windsor Park in the bus and the [Northern Irish] kids standing up and pointing pretend weapons at his colleagues as they entered the stadium,” Birney says. “They all remember very well boarding the plane coming back to Florida, leaving Giants Stadium and heading back. They all remember the news coming through and the very sombre plane ride.
“For all the players and the FAI officials, they all very much remember Loughinisland and the fact that it was Irish supporters that were attacked on that night. They had only gone to the bar to support the Irish team, yet they died for their love of the sport.”
(Ray Houghton celebrates after scoring against Italy — the Irish team’s joy would be cut short upon learning of events at Loughinisland later that evening)
Birney himself was stunned by the news on the night of 18 June, not only because of the incredibly ruthless nature of the killings, but also owing to the ostensible randomness of their location. If a low-key pub in the middle of nowhere could be the site of such extreme violence, then seemingly nowhere in the North was safe.
“I remember exactly when the news came through that an attack had happened, one of my colleagues called me from the newsroom,” he explains. “I remember even then that we had never heard of Loughinisland. If terrorists were going out with murder in mind, there were plenty of bars in Belfast that night which were packed to the rafters with football fans watching the match. For people to choose this particular village and this particular pub was confusing. For days afterwards, no one could understand why they had gone right out of their way in the middle of this countryside to choose this bar. I still remember the feelings coming through and getting the news in the little place we were watching the match.”
And indeed, this question of ‘why Loughinisland?’ is one of the documentary’s central themes. Police have spent years ascertaining various details relating to the case, openly vowing to ‘leave no stone unturned’. Yet despite the emergence of seemingly critical evidence, such as the apparent masks and hair follicles of the attackers, still no one has been brought to justice for these crimes 20 years on, and the reason the Down-based bar was targeted remains inconclusive.
“I don’t think any of the authorities have ever been able to work out why that bar was chosen. There were no links to terrorists in that bar, unlike other bars where there had been some sort of incident before or some sort of knowledge. The police could find nothing that would link the terrorists to that bar and yet, it was the most humble of bars in County Down — [they were] very simple, very proud, but very humble people.
“It’s something that the relatives and the victims are still coming to terms with and it’s something that can’t be forgotten. It’s those people who are left behind. Those people who are still struggling to come to terms with what happened. And they’ve never been provided with an answer to that very fundamental question: ‘why us?’”
Birney sees some paralells with another tragedy that has also recently been the subject of an ESPN ‘30 for 30′ documentary — the Hillsborough disaster. As with that similaely awful event, those who have been left suffering from its consequences continue to fight on determinedly in search of the truth, seeking justice for what happened.
“You’ve got to take your hats off to these people,” he says. “How they can be so stoic yet so dedicated to finding answers to bring to justice those responsible for the deaths of their loved ones and those behind the killings. It’s very humbling to spend any amount of time with them.
(An image of the bar shortly after the tragedy occurred — credit: Ceasefire Massacre screengrab)
“I don’t know 20 years on whether I could do what they’ve done — it’s just incredible, I’m in awe of them. They meet every month, they plan every month, they talk every month about what they’d like to do. For them, the horror of Loughinisland is very much alive in the lives of all those who suffered and lost loved ones or were injured. And it’s incredible seeing them all in a room just sitting around. There’s always plenty of tea and sandwiches and biscuits whenever you go down to meet with them. It’s a real mark and testimony to their dedication and determination.”
Yet having initially trusted the authorities in their search for justice, the victims’ relatives have grown increasingly frustrated at the lack of definitive findings over the years, despite countless clues being uncovered.
“Every day saw another chance gone for justice for the people who had died,” he says. “So we approached them and told them what we wanted to do and about Alex [Gibney], who he was and why he wanted this story told, what ESPN’s interest was and why they wanted to do this story and their particular expertise and background in doing very difficult subjects and stories connected to sport.
“The families were very supportive, so last October, Alex flew into Belfast and he spent two days in Loughinisland and interviewed all the families. All the families were interviewed in the bars, so all the interviews you see were in the bar in which the attack took place. We did that because the families and the owners of the bar were very comfortable in those surroundings and they were very happy to be interviewed there.
“But also, it was to give Alex a real sense of just how small this village was, how tight-knit this village was and how much all of this means to the families. He was giving up his time to actually do this story and make this documentary — they were very appreciative that Alex was wanting to take this on and bring the story to as wide an audience as possible.”
(American documentarian Alex Gibney directed the film in conjunction with Birney)
Moreover, once the filmmakers actually sat down the with the victims’ relatives, they discovered that despite experiencing many years of frustration, they were still hopeful that irrefutable evidence would eventually identify those responsible for the murders of 18 June.
“The car in which the killers used to get away has gone, but every day, we’re hearing of arrests in relation to the Jean McConville case, which was back in 1972. These arrests were many years later. For the families of those who died and those who were injured, they’re still determined that [the murderers] be brought to justice.”
In addition, Birney believes the British government — who many suspect to be in possession of information that could potentially serve to reinvigorate the case — should be more transparent on the issue.
“The British government should tell the truth about what it knew prior to the attack, after the attack and what its relationship was — if there was one at all — with the killers. We know that loyalist paramilitaries in 1994 had been infiltrated to the very highest levels by British intelligence, whether it be the local RUC Special Branch, MI5, or military intelligence.
“We know that from lots of the investigative journalism that’s been done, by the reports of the Northern Ireland police ombudsman, and all the other evidence that’s come out around the Pat Finucane case — if you put all those pieces of evidence and reports together, you build up a picture of what actually was the relationship between loyalist paramilitaries and the British intelligence forces. It shows that they had informers at the highest level, they had agents within the paramilitaries. And that’s what the families want to know. Did the police know anything about this attack? Could they have prevented it? That’s a fundamental question.”
The Belfast-based Fermanagh native Birney, who is currently the managing director of the television production company Below the Radar, is particularly grateful for the role that Gibney played in getting the film made.
Furthermore, while the version of Ceasefire Massacre set to air on Tuesday is just under half an hour in length, Birney says that they eventually hope to release a feature-length 90-minute version of the story.
Having met the Yale-educated American documentarian at the Galway Film Festival in 2008, the pair promptly struck up a friendship and also worked together on the 2012 documentary Mea Maxima Culpa.
Gibney has gradually established himself as one of America’s preeminent documentary filmmakers, directing a series of acclaimed features including We Steal Secrets: The Story of Wikileaks and The Armstrong Lie, with Esquire going so far as to call him “the most important documentarian of our time”.
The Academy Award-winning American director’s significant clout undoubtedly helped persuade ESPN to get behind this project, and Birney says that his colleague’s considerable reputation is utterly deserved.
“Speaking to him in a restaurant in New York last week, the names of those who died, the names of those that he’d met, the organisations, they were all rolling off his tongue. He just has an incredible capacity to take in and hold information and somehow makes sense of it all in a way that in 22 minutes, this story going out to millions of Americans will make sense to them. It’ll actually touch a raw nerve and create an emotional relationship. I think it is something which shows the way that Alex really does care about what he’s doing and the subjects that he takes on in these films. It’s what makes these films so moving and impactful.
“I believe he is a master storyteller of our time. You only have to look at the work that he has produced in the last few years alone… With this film, from January or February of last year, when Alex had never heard about Loughinisland, had never heard about what happened there through to what we were talking about [in the restaurant]. The level and the depth of knowledge that he’s now gone to in this story is incredible.
(A banner commemorating those who lost their lives in the Loughinisland Massacre – credit: Ceasefire Massacre screengrab)
“It just makes me marvel how he balances everything else he has on in his life. He’s really devoured the research. He’s built up a forensic knowledge of the case. He understands all the nuances of the story and who’s who. He’s built that up and having worked so closely with him over the last few months, I’m even more in awe than I was before. He’s done a fantastic job on this and I know the relatives of those who died in Loughinisland are going to be very proud of it.”
I hope this documentary shows up the UVF for who they really are, British sponsored terrorists.
That’s not even worthy of a reply.
I didnt think your post was worthy of a reply either but I replied anyway. Its the same old republican nonsense all the time and its getting boring.
Finger constantly pointed at this collusion between loyalists and police etc but never a mention of the exact same collusion between the Irish state and republican terrorists.
When the article is about IRA collusion i will comment in relation to that, as this is about a British terrorist attack that’s what my comments will reflect, i said your previous comment was not worth a reply because you wrongly assumed i am some kind of Republican sympathiser. I suggest you should read the article and all the comments before you make assumptions such as that.
The article is about the troubles in which there were more than one side, this attack was the latest in a very long line of attacks that took place over the previous 25 years. It wasnt a British terrorist attack either, it was an attack by illegal loyalist terrorists, would it be fair for me to say every IRA or INLA massacre was an Irish terrorist attack?
No it wouldn’t, James, because you deny their Irishness
And now you’re denying that the UVF are British? How strange
The article is about a documentary on the Loughinisland massacre.
With almost 25,000 british troops patrolling that tiny little part of this country at the time are you trying to tell me that “illegal loyalist terrorists” were able to carry out this or any attack without the prior knowledge of those at the very top of the military? if you are, you’re pissing against the wind. The highest number of casualties in any one day during the conflict was the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, educate yourself on who and how these were carried out, if you still insist on calling them “illegal loyalist terrorists” well then as Ron White once said, ‘You cant fix stupid’
would it be fair for me to say every IRA or INLA massacre was an Irish terrorist attack?”
Yes it would, but never in the name of the Irish people, nor were they sponsored by Dublin, Unlike the British terror squads, whom i must add had no support from the British public, but were supported by Westminster.
While I have no doubt that Jamesy will vehemently deny it, the UVF targeted civilians to a much greater extent than the IRA. While the IRA was killing British soldiers and police officers, the UVF were killing Catholics civilians.
Why did the UVF consistently choose to target Catholics for purely sectarian reasons?
The republicans murdered innocent Protestants so I assume the loyalists reacted by murdering innocent Catholics, that was the sectarian nature of the conflict.
The years before this massacre the republicans had carried out the Shankill bombing and the Teebane massacre and the loyalists retaliated with Greysteel and Sean Grahams massacres. It was the same kind of tit for tat nonsense that was in effect in the 70′s.
Its all well and good blaming loyalists and the security forces for colluding, dont forget to mention the Irish state funding the PIRA and its security forces then colluding with them too. Why is that being swept under the carpet?
And in 1994 there were no 25, 000 British troops here, there were about 10, 000 and they had every level of the IRA infiltrated too as well as the loyalists, look at Scappaticci and Donaldson as examples. Why didnt they stop every IRA operation? I’ll tell you why and the intelligence folk who worked here will tell you also, no matter how good your intel is or how on the ball you think you are you just dont stop every attack every time, thats the way it goes.
Brendan Hughes said that by the time the 94 ceasefires came around about 80% of IRA operations were compromised, to the security forces that would be considered a victory. The British were also content that they had the conflict down to “an acceptable level of violence” since the 1980′s.
325 years and still under siege eh Jamesie? Your whataboutery argument is a joke. Educate yourself outside the box.
I see that you’re as intransigent as ever, Jamesy. That’s some fine whataboutery though.
It’s well established that the IRA did not generally target civilians. Even the most damning report into IRA killings only places the percentage of civilian deaths at between 20 and 30%. Only around 8% of those killings are considered sectarian in nature.
Of the UVF’s targets, approximately 85% were Catholic civilians, the majority killed in sectarian attacks.
The IRA would murder soldiers or police officers and, in response, the UVF would massacre civilians. That’s the kind of ‘tit for tat’ killings that were going on.
The IRA did target civilians. Why the revisionism?
Did I claim that they didn’t? I clearly cited that 20-30% of their victims were civilian, 8% targeted for sectarian reasons. How much clearer do I have to make it for you?
Civilians were not their main target though. That would have been agents of the British state, such as soldiers or police officers. Soldiers alone made up roughly 55% of their victims.
The UVF, however, almost exclusively targeted civilians, and for purely sectarian reasons. While the IRA and British security forces were fighting a protracted conflict, the UVF were acting as a sectarian death squad.
So, Jamesy, why do you think the UVF acted in such a way? What do you think was their reasoning for massacring civilians solely for being catholic?
They massacred Catholic civilians because the republicans massacred Protestant civilians. Both were murderous bstards. How clear do you want me to be?
The only side making efforts to save life were the security forces, they paid the highest price too for doing so.
Do you not see the difference between 30% (max, the actual figure is likely closer to 20%) and 85% (a commonly accepted figure)? The UVF existed solely to massacre civilians. The IRA, whatever else one can say about them, mostly targeted security forces. Even the most staunch critics of the IRA only claim 8% of their killings to be sectarian in nature. Contrast that to the vast majority of UVF killings with a sectarian motive.
As much as you would like to muddy the waters and claim that all sides were the same, it just isn’t true.
You overlook the volume of killings though, the IRA murdered about 1800 while the UVF murdered about 450. That renders your % as less significant.
Im not a spokesperson for the UVF by the way nor do I want to be. You seem to be a defender of the IRA, are you a supporter?
I am not go away
No, it doesn’t.
I’m not defending the IRA. I would hardly call their targeting of security forces murder if I was. I’m just dealing with the reality of the situation. The IRA did not target civilians in the same way that the UVF did. If you have a problem with that factual statement, your problem is with reality.
The republicans did target civilians in exactly the same way though and as frequently.
And you talk of security forces like it was ok to kill them, the people in the RUC and UDR who were killed had family too, they also had family members who took revenge (wrongly in my opinion but im not one of the bereaved) through loyalist paramilitaries. The republicans killed these people in the most callous fashion too when many of them were off duty.
Jamesy, I have repeatedly called the killing of security forces murder. Does that sound like . You really are slow on the uptake.
Ridiculous comment, that the IRA targeted civilians as frequently as
Jamesy, I have repeatedly called the killing of security forces murder. Does that sound like I’m condoning it? You really are slow on the uptake.
Ridiculous comment, that the IRA targeted civilians as frequently as the UVF. Once again, 85% to 20/30%. That’s clearly not the same frequency.
Disregard my previous comment. Hit submit early by mistake.
The total number though allied with the % suggests that it was the same frequency.
1800 kills to 450 kills. Do rough maths.
Ira very very rarely chose civilians. Shankill butchers was yes but that was a unique situation.
Jamesy boy you lost that one – badly!!
White fang how can you say the IRA did not target civilians . On the 21 of July 1971 26 car bombs went off in belfast city Center killing 11 people and 120 injure . There are ex Provo s walking around today disgusted by there actions and what they have done . It became known as bloody Friday . A pregnant female police officer was kill in Bangor . The ira s reaction to it . We got two for the price of one .
Them 25000 troops were patrolling the time of the kingsmills massacre to !
What about kingsmills , eniskellen and the like whitefang
No it wasnt
Immature
Get goosebumps just reading about that horrible night.. was only 12 when this happened but still remember me mum and dads reaction after it… I hope some day the families get the closure they deserve!
While the Northern Troubles threw up many many bad days – this was a very dark one – a real tragedy.
30 for 30 brilliant series and thanks for taking this story to a global audience
Excellent article, may those dark days never return to our small island again. I remember that day with such joy , only for it to be replaced with sorrow. Shot dead by sectarian bigots for following their team!! Madness.
Why?
Why what, exactly?
Nice article, but they didn’t die for “the love of the sport” They were in the wrong place at the wrong time, murdered by religious bigots, they did not sacrifice their lives for football.
To be fair, I don’t think I ever suggested that in the article – it’s only if you interpret the headline in a very particular way without reading any of the text below that you can come to that conclusion. They died because they so happened to like sport and were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that’s what both the headline and the piece in general are outlining.
They weren’t in “the wrong place at the wrong time” I’m sure all in the bar watching the match intended to be there, they were murdered by coward who laughed all the way back to the getaway car……..
Why did you delete my reply Paul, to the best of my knowledge I didn’t break any of The Journals guidelines. Are we not allowed to criticize an article on The Journal? Now I am left with so many unanswered questions. Did my intelligent retort upset you? Did it confuse you? Do you agree or disagree with my reply. If someone is murdered in their own house, cooking dinner, would you have titled the subsequent article They died for their love of the food”
You’re perfectly entitled to criticise articles Helena, but please abide by our comments policy while doing so (http://www.thejournal.ie/comments-policy/).
Furthermore, your food analogy is inept. As the article makes clear, it wasn’t a complete coincidence that the murderers killed followers of the Irish soccer team — they undoubtedly knew the pub would be full of football fans when they planned the murders.
You’re retort wasn’t as intelligent as you might think, Helena. As Paul pointed out, that food analogy was silly.
I never knew it was the author of the article that moderated the comments.
I never knew it was the author of the article that moderated the comments
Great article paul , I was only 13 and football mad when it happened , couldn’t understand it then , still can’t understand it now . Cowardly and barbaric act .
Paul how can the journal do nothing about jamsey b pickart p lyons he is destroying the journal with his trolling can anything be done
Michael, I would urge you and others to please report any comments you read that fail to abide by the comments policy referenced above.
Provided they do break the rules, we will delete them promptly once they’re reported.
I remember being in my hotel room in New York and seeing this come on the news, it was a real low point and lead to many New Yorkers changing their questions about what was this soccer tournament about to asking us what is was like coming from a country with a war going on!
“at the time, the attitude was that if you couldn’t get an IRA man you should shoot a Taig, he’s your last resort”.
Gusty Spence
And to think there are still those who believe armed struggle is a viable way forward.
Never again.
Those that think it today are criminals who just call their trade union republicanism
this is about british state sponsored murder, not bout the ira.
And yet even in the face of unjustifiable slaughter of innocents, small minded bigots from both sides will bicker in this comment section about who was right and wrong.
The people who did the shooting were wrong
Loyalist siege mentality basterds, yet it’s only the cause of republicanism that sullied by media the world over. My friends in Slovakia could go on and on about the IRA yet hadn’t a notion about the UVF or British army and the god knows how many other Loyalist forces that spilled more civilian blood during the troubles.
It seems I can’t say I’m an Irish republican anywhere in the world without people assuming I’m an extremist, while a self confessed Loyalist would be considered unblemished and “enlightened” . It frustrates me.
Ar dheis Dé go raibh a n-anam
Its a pity about you isnt it.
It makes me angry. Justice shouldn’t be one sided and neither should the media.
Justice did go both ways, over 7000 loyalists were locked up during the troubles. Thats a fairly significant number of people from that movement incarcerated, definitely for a movement that supposedly escaped justice.
Sadly about 3000 of the 3500 murders during the conflict were unsolved so a lot of people on both sides escaped justice, hence the formation of the HET.
You actually make a great point and not too far from the truth , it’s like everyone in the world knows of 9/11 but never heard of USA drone attacks on civilians killing women & children . Media controls what the world will hear , only few of us step outside the bubble and realise the real truth , media came up with sky sports and X factor to keep everyone in this bubble .. Having said all that , I believe Sinn Fein are taking the right direction , a united Ireland will only be achieved thru peaceful and political ways . The IRA now are nothing more than thugs that control the drug trade in Dublin , not many Irish ppl can see this either.
That the same HET which provided the evidence of systematic and institutionalised collusion between the state and loyalist murder gangs? Something which you have repeatedly denied on this site?
Mitch, I agree with most of what you say, but I would take issue with your last statement regarding the IRA being thugs that control the drug trade in Dublin. Any and all of those criminal organisations are not even the distant cousin of the IRA. They are criminals masquerading as Republicans in order to gain some form of legitimacy. Grand, they have hijacked the name of the IRA, but you could call a duck a giraffe and it will still stay a duck.
A similar attack to that perpetrated at Loughinisland was attempted at nearby Annaclone on the occasion of the World Cup final just a few weeks later.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/publican-averted-ulster-massacre-1414769.html
Thankfully the owner of the pub, John Loy, had wisely locked his pub’s doors at kick-off. Unable to get in, the attacking gunmen opened fire through windows and, while seven customers were injured, nobody was killed.
(My personal interest: my parents rented a house from the Loy family just 100 meters from the Hawthorne Inn when we lived in Annaclone in the mid-60s).
Paddy I don’t support or defend any of the terrorist organisation that existed during the troubles but I think you will find the ira murder more Catholics then the uvf ever did . The murder campaign of the ira resulted in thousands of people dieing and tens of thousands injured . The uvf it was hundreds . Over a million Brit soldiers serve in ulster and everyone of them risk there life’s in a conflict of hate . Many paid with there life’s and many more sacrifice there life’s to save others .
I assume that is in reply to me, I am well aware of the history of Northern Ireland, i was commenting on this story/documentary and the age old argument ‘ your side killed more ‘ is childish at best, all deaths involved were terrible, i does’t escape the FACT that the UVF/UFF/UDA etc were and still are British government sponsored death squads, the best argument i have ever heard in the great debate about the IRA is that if it wasn’t for the British, they simply would have never existed.
These are correct up to 2011 as far as im aware…
loyalist paramilitaries killed 1016 people during the Troubles:
868 Civilians
14 British Security
41 Republican paramilitaries.
93 Loyalist paramilitaries
85.43% of people killed by Loyalists were civilians. 4.7% of the people killed by Loyalists were Republican paramilitaries. That figure includes Republicans who were ex-paramilitaries. Loyalists killed more civilians then anyone during the Troubles.
Republicans accounted for over 60% of the whole death toll and murdered more people than loyalists and security forces put together. They certainly maimed a lot more than that too in bombings, everybody seems to think a victim is somebody who was killed, there were 50, 000 people injured here too many seriously. The Loughinisland massacre killed 6 people, a further 5 were shot too which in my opinion is being seriously injured.
That comment with statistics was in reply to a comment made about how republicans murdered more civilians that anyone else.. it wasnt a ‘loyalists are worse’ comment it was a reply! :-) im well aware of how bad the ira were durong the troubles..
Tommy I think you will find out if you checked that most of the Catholics the Provos killed were poor white English trash who wore the Brit army uniform- The Volunteers with a AK or a remote control switch had not got the time to ask British army members which religion they were- The IRA did not discriminate – they killed them all-
Loyalists always chose civilian targets and nothing else. CATHOLICS. animals with no cause
I think it’s time to move on and stop bickering about who did the most violence and so on. The record of violence and murder in the Provence was atrocious and let’s hope we never live to see it again .
Micheal are u for real . The ira murder more people in n Ireland then any other organisation during the 20 odd yrs during the troubles . They where always the key to bringing the troubles to an end . No other organisation could have brought the troubles to an end . Not the British or any other organisation was capable of ending the blood bath . All you have to do is look at the north today . It’s a completely different place simply because the ira ended there campaign of violence . The loyalists terror organisations could no longer justify there existence . The home service battalions of the British army have been disbanded . The patrol bases pull down . The border no longer manned . The ira made there point back in the 70s or even 80s and the violence should have been brought to an end . Thousands of people would have never have needed to die on all sides but they didn’t . They chose to try to bomb and kill there way into a united Ireland by the use of force . It took 24 yrs for them to realise that the people on both sides of the border where not going to support them or Sinn Fein . If they thought that violence was capable of bringing about a united Ireland then it would be still happening today .
Well the Loyalists started the troubles before the Provos even existed, and they’re still terrorising people today long after the provisionals have decommissioned
The British state was not capable of ending the bloodbath?? Are u for real??
Really? Sinn Fein are about to become the largest power in Irish politics in few wks with Gerry Adams as most popular leader according to polls
16% is nowhere near the largest party!
25% is………………….lol
Tommy you are actually correct. The violence should and could have ended in the 70/80′s, saving hundreds of lives. The IRA had sued for peace then. It was brought down by unionism/loyalist who refused to even contemplate treating the nationalist community as any type of equals. The unionist politicians of dup,oup,took to the streets hand in hand with loyalist paramilitaries to bring these talks down. The British folded due to those threats of deepening conflict. The GFA could have been arrived at Years earlier if this intransigence had not been to the fore from unionist and British quarters.
Come election time – SF lucky to get 10/15% of morons votes !
Whoever did this , I hope they burn in hell , barbaric cowardly act !!
It always comes back to ‘ but but the IRA’. The issue is and always has been with these murders, that british tax payers pay the police and army and these state forces who operate above the law of the same state murdered innocent people. People to this day on RUC pensions and men in suits in Mi5 who go into work each day knowing exactly who killed these people and knew well in advance of their killing. They’re worse than the UVF
Attacks likes these were only done with senior approval. One of the signs of an impending loyalist attack was that the British Army and RUC would withdraw from an area.
I remember visiting cousins from in Armagh, my mother’s people, staunch unionists.
They would warn us about RUC or UDR checkpoints so to avoid them.
What an awful tragedy. Carried out by ciwRds or rather murderers.
Absolutely sickening.
One can only imagine happiness turning to fear and terror and then death.
Mans inhumanity to man.
the UVF and IRA are opposite sides of the same coin and both are too stupid and blinded by hatred to realise this.
The RUC and the UDR played their part in this attack. Like most Loyalist killings the security forces knew when to stay away and knew who not to arrest.
The investigation was compromised in every way possible.
The PSNI has today appealed for any new information to be made public- which it should- but it will not come by the PSNI-
Today Sinn Fein made a public statement saying that the PSNI appeal was a insult to people’s intelligence because the PSNI today is trying to thwart an investigation by the Police Ombudsman into the Loughinisland massacre-do the police think Sinn Fein are going to forget-
If you want to solve this crime ask the local RUC .
Jamesy boy !
Don’t quote false statements from people who are dead.That speaks volume about your mindset etc.Do you accept the fact that you are an irish man albeit a bottom feeder.
Apologize to the people in general and stop this pointless rhetoric better men than you and indeed me have done so
White fang 47000 people where injured by all sides that was point . Attempted murder on thousands more . The ira left 100 s of ieds in public places with no regard to who they kill . Belfast city center was a prime target . The majority of them disarm by security forces . Anyone could have been a victim no matter where u come from , what religion you or what ur believes are .
if brit terrorists weren’t murdering civvies the ira would not have existed.
Micheal u don’t give into violence by a minority of people that chose to Inflict it on the majority . Less then one percent of the population of the north chose to take part in the violence that brought so much misery into people’s lives .
Tens of thousands?
Ah Tommy, you clearly haven’t a clue.
Jamesy, why did the UVF choose to almost exclusively target civilians? Only one side aimed to massacre those with no connection to the conflict, for purely sectarian reasons.
No fang, both sides aimed to massacre those with no connection to the conflict. Get your facts right and I’ll engage you in debate.
jamsie and facts…lmfao
You don’t give into violence from a minority of people. How did the 6 county state ever come into being then??????
Scottish planters !
Donal you don’t even look old enough to have been around during the troubles . You sure your having a going at the right people here . Almost every day the ira where put on our tv screens with another murder . People where outrage at the actions of the ira both north and south of the border . The reputation you have as a republican has been giving to you by the organisation that kill so many people in the most cowardly way . To the majority of people south of the border they where consider to be nothing more then murderers .
I consider murderers murderers as well. What I was venting about was how lightly it seems murderers in the name of Loyalism have gotten off in media, particularly abroad. It made me angry to learn of this gloss over while I was in Slovakia, Czech Republic and Hungary recently. They also had never heard of the British armys conduct or of state security forces collusion with Loyalist paramilitaries. They were missing morr than half the story. I asked them if they had even hearf of it on the news and they all said no. They’re intelligent with keen interest in news and politics around the world but were very misinformed. I could only think their media was being highly selective or biased. It makes you wonder what’s really going on in places of conflict like the middle east and africa.
James I agree with a lot of what u say . The problem with a lot of people on here is that they cannot defend a organisation that murder men women and children so they chose to try and drag everybody else down to the same level as the murderers they try to defend . It’s the only way they can justify there actions .
Anyone no when can we watch this or when is it on here
Terrible