THE SUBJECT OF doping in rugby has been hotly debated over the last few days after journalist Paul Kimmage wrote an article saying that perhaps it is more widespread in the sport than players, coaches and fans would like to admit.
Last night Ronan O’Gara was a guest on RTE Radio’s Game On and he was blunt on what he felt the punishment should be for offenders. He also spoke about the example of underage player Sam Chalmers, son of Scottish international Craig, who was given a two year ban for taking a banned substance.
O’Gara thinks it’s important that young players get the message about the perils of doping.
“There’s fellas breaking their arse day in and day out naturally and if there are some cheats in there then they need to be given lifetime bans,” O’Gara said.
“Someone like Craig Chalmers’ son was someone who was well educated, knew everything about it but fell into the trap of taking a banned substance. It is one thing to talk about it but if young players are under pressure and they do fall into the trap then it is a massive problem for our game.”
While O’Gara says he never saw doping firsthand during his career, there was always a bit of dressing room gossip swirling around about various players.
“There has always been whispers about during the 15 or 16 years that I played the game that so-and-so was maybe on this or that,” O’Gara said.
“I suppose when someone like Paul Kimmage gets involved and the evidence is credible then you have to sit up and take notice. Someone like him can use his time far better than just creating rumours.”
In fairness ROG never morphed into a steroid ridden pumped up weightlifter when there would have been a temptation to bulk up given the size of opposition he faced at no 10.
The same can’t be said of quite a few internationals I would think.
It’s all well and good talking about people busting their guts but if an injection can increase your performance threefold then some people will take the chance, especially if failure is the only other option.
In fairness, most rugby players, while packing a lot of muscle, don’t look at all like they’re not natural. Most, of not all, have been lifting for >5years and in that time, with the right nutrition and training, a lot of muscle can be built without touching a steroid.
There’s no smoke without fire. ROG’s personal views and his expression of them is refreshing, however he all but said some players were on certain products, be they minor or serious PED’s. It will be interesting to see if the IRFU take action, i.e. more random testing, biological passport, seminars to school kids etc (or are they aware of possible doping?). Cycling was dragged through the waters and I genuinely think Kimmage loves sport and doesn’t want what happened in cycling to happen with rugby here in Ireland. Whether there is doping occuring or not, your average fan like myself can only speculate.
@Sports Derd. “There’s no smoke without fire”. That is the mentality of the ignorant and the easily swayed. It is, for example, because of the no shortage in life of undiscerning and hasty types with your mentality that the English-speaking world has developed, over the course of centuries, a rigorous system of common law in which serious accusations have to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. People like you, with your no smoke without fire mentality, would, for example, hang, draw and quarter a man accused of rape without waiting for a rigorous and evidence-based investigation to take place. People like you don’t believe in the tried and tested principle that people are innocent until proven guilty, you’d rather smear a whole sport based on the unsupported conjecture of a publicity-seeking journalist.
As an old saying goes: it is far easier to knock a wall down than to build one. Paul Kimmage, for his own self-aggrandisement and self-publicity, not for any true “love of sport”, is attempting to knock rugby and, by association, all of those men who work very hard to develop themselves in the game, by putting out there an unsupported rumour (and that’s all he has to offer) about allegedly “widespread” doping, without a shred of evidence to back up such an allegation.
The drug cheats exist because of that rigorous system you hold in such esteem. Performance enhancing drugs are becoming harder to detect. So how do you prove it? Is it fair to look at a player’s improved performance? Yes. Is it fair to look at a player who has bulked up considerably when he couldn’t do so before? Yes. Is it fair to question the performance of a player who used to die after 60 minutes but who is still running like mad at 80? Yes. Once drugs take a foothold they will take over the sport because players won’t be able to compete fairly against others taking PEDs. Look at the Late Late Show episode on you-tube with David Walsh and Stephen Roche. Walsh was vilified for attempting to suggest that cycling had a problem and we all know how that turned out.
@John
I share zero views depicted of me in your first paragraph. For the second, I guess we’ll disagree about Kimmage. I believe he is a man of integrity and wants sport to be competed honestly. I am not saying there is doping, widespread or other, in rugby. I just think that if people are talking about it being a possibility then it should be looked into. I sincerely hope it is not going on as I am a fan of rugby and many sports, like Kimmage.
I think it should be a bit of both really. Biological passports and random testing are highly effective, but I presume their are cheats who are evading these atm. Therefore, we should certainly look at sudden improvements in performance an physical ability with some serious scepticism.
Kimmage is a heroic figure in my opinion. When he first tried to expose what went on in cycling he was met with the same reaction as now – “no drugs in our sport, it’s only rumours, he should stop speculating, needs proof etc.” and guess what? Eventually he was proved right – history will repeat itself here eventually. He took drugs, he admitted it – and then fought to save the sport. I admire the man immensely. The fact that high profile people have rushed out to discredit him leads me to believe there is something to this….
There’s often the thought that people are “rushing” to refute a rumour or claim, but like Henshaw denying any truth to moving to Leinster or Heaslip denying there’s doping in rugby, these people aren’t calling up the newspapers to put the record straight, they’re answering direct questions from journalists. No rushing at all.
Regarding doping, I’d be very very surprised if there was drug use in any of the Irish set up, it’s so closely linked with the national union, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was in France and England, where clubs are privately owned and regulated and only answer to themselves.
Completely agree, and the writer of the French book which started this said on OTB that his friend was a police escort for England at Rwc 07 and he had to deliver special supplements
“No smoke without fire ” must be the oldest clique in existence that allows speculation and opinion to flourish without any concrete evidence, where exactly is the smoke in this case? Its a term used by commentators so they can create “stories” that parade as news in the mass media market.
O’Gara is asking Kimmage to go find the cheats and clearly assumes that there are some. He is also highlighting that the temptation is there to gain any edge.
What is not to believe in what ROG is saying?
Some players in other countries seem to have unnatural physiques. Lots of rugby fans are suspicious and hope the Irish are basically clean.
Alan.
At least now the debate has started, inevitable and inexorably and with time the truth will out, once someone breaks the code of silence, just like in cycling and in athletics, I wonder who will be first?
ROGis the only rugged head admit that their might be a problem . Bu most people are missing the point of the allegations . It’s not illegal drugs but prescription drugs which can performance enhancing or as in the case of asthma medicine as a cover for more serious drugs. Btw a huge percentage of rugby players now have asthma.
Kimmage is an arse. Hes hijacking the french dudes book about the French players for his own means. This is not news…only now bleedin Kimmage is milking it. Download Wednesday night rugby off the ball podcast to hear the full story. We didnt need Kimmage or any other ex player weighing in on a media frenzy. Its not news in tugby. Effective plagarism if not actual.
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ROG is definitely not a drugs cheat. Hard work and discipline were what made him great not drugs
In fairness ROG never morphed into a steroid ridden pumped up weightlifter when there would have been a temptation to bulk up given the size of opposition he faced at no 10.
The same can’t be said of quite a few internationals I would think.
It’s all well and good talking about people busting their guts but if an injection can increase your performance threefold then some people will take the chance, especially if failure is the only other option.
In fairness, most rugby players, while packing a lot of muscle, don’t look at all like they’re not natural. Most, of not all, have been lifting for >5years and in that time, with the right nutrition and training, a lot of muscle can be built without touching a steroid.
There’s no smoke without fire. ROG’s personal views and his expression of them is refreshing, however he all but said some players were on certain products, be they minor or serious PED’s. It will be interesting to see if the IRFU take action, i.e. more random testing, biological passport, seminars to school kids etc (or are they aware of possible doping?). Cycling was dragged through the waters and I genuinely think Kimmage loves sport and doesn’t want what happened in cycling to happen with rugby here in Ireland. Whether there is doping occuring or not, your average fan like myself can only speculate.
The simple economics of reward versus risk will tell anybody all they need to know about PED’s. Drugs are rife in pro sports.
@Sports Derd. “There’s no smoke without fire”. That is the mentality of the ignorant and the easily swayed. It is, for example, because of the no shortage in life of undiscerning and hasty types with your mentality that the English-speaking world has developed, over the course of centuries, a rigorous system of common law in which serious accusations have to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. People like you, with your no smoke without fire mentality, would, for example, hang, draw and quarter a man accused of rape without waiting for a rigorous and evidence-based investigation to take place. People like you don’t believe in the tried and tested principle that people are innocent until proven guilty, you’d rather smear a whole sport based on the unsupported conjecture of a publicity-seeking journalist.
As an old saying goes: it is far easier to knock a wall down than to build one. Paul Kimmage, for his own self-aggrandisement and self-publicity, not for any true “love of sport”, is attempting to knock rugby and, by association, all of those men who work very hard to develop themselves in the game, by putting out there an unsupported rumour (and that’s all he has to offer) about allegedly “widespread” doping, without a shred of evidence to back up such an allegation.
The drug cheats exist because of that rigorous system you hold in such esteem. Performance enhancing drugs are becoming harder to detect. So how do you prove it? Is it fair to look at a player’s improved performance? Yes. Is it fair to look at a player who has bulked up considerably when he couldn’t do so before? Yes. Is it fair to question the performance of a player who used to die after 60 minutes but who is still running like mad at 80? Yes. Once drugs take a foothold they will take over the sport because players won’t be able to compete fairly against others taking PEDs. Look at the Late Late Show episode on you-tube with David Walsh and Stephen Roche. Walsh was vilified for attempting to suggest that cycling had a problem and we all know how that turned out.
@John
I share zero views depicted of me in your first paragraph. For the second, I guess we’ll disagree about Kimmage. I believe he is a man of integrity and wants sport to be competed honestly. I am not saying there is doping, widespread or other, in rugby. I just think that if people are talking about it being a possibility then it should be looked into. I sincerely hope it is not going on as I am a fan of rugby and many sports, like Kimmage.
I think it should be a bit of both really. Biological passports and random testing are highly effective, but I presume their are cheats who are evading these atm. Therefore, we should certainly look at sudden improvements in performance an physical ability with some serious scepticism.
Kimmage is a heroic figure in my opinion. When he first tried to expose what went on in cycling he was met with the same reaction as now – “no drugs in our sport, it’s only rumours, he should stop speculating, needs proof etc.” and guess what? Eventually he was proved right – history will repeat itself here eventually. He took drugs, he admitted it – and then fought to save the sport. I admire the man immensely. The fact that high profile people have rushed out to discredit him leads me to believe there is something to this….
There’s often the thought that people are “rushing” to refute a rumour or claim, but like Henshaw denying any truth to moving to Leinster or Heaslip denying there’s doping in rugby, these people aren’t calling up the newspapers to put the record straight, they’re answering direct questions from journalists. No rushing at all.
Regarding doping, I’d be very very surprised if there was drug use in any of the Irish set up, it’s so closely linked with the national union, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was in France and England, where clubs are privately owned and regulated and only answer to themselves.
Completely agree, and the writer of the French book which started this said on OTB that his friend was a police escort for England at Rwc 07 and he had to deliver special supplements
“No smoke without fire ” must be the oldest clique in existence that allows speculation and opinion to flourish without any concrete evidence, where exactly is the smoke in this case? Its a term used by commentators so they can create “stories” that parade as news in the mass media market.
I’d believe an honest guy like Kimmage over O’Gara every day of the week.
Kimmage took drugs himself as lied about u clown
Yeah god I hate trolls… ;)
O’Gara is asking Kimmage to go find the cheats and clearly assumes that there are some. He is also highlighting that the temptation is there to gain any edge.
What is not to believe in what ROG is saying?
Some players in other countries seem to have unnatural physiques. Lots of rugby fans are suspicious and hope the Irish are basically clean.
Alan.
At least now the debate has started, inevitable and inexorably and with time the truth will out, once someone breaks the code of silence, just like in cycling and in athletics, I wonder who will be first?
ROGis the only rugged head admit that their might be a problem . Bu most people are missing the point of the allegations . It’s not illegal drugs but prescription drugs which can performance enhancing or as in the case of asthma medicine as a cover for more serious drugs. Btw a huge percentage of rugby players now have asthma.
Kimmage is an arse. Hes hijacking the french dudes book about the French players for his own means. This is not news…only now bleedin Kimmage is milking it. Download Wednesday night rugby off the ball podcast to hear the full story. We didnt need Kimmage or any other ex player weighing in on a media frenzy. Its not news in tugby. Effective plagarism if not actual.